Bondage Forums

This classic posting deserves to be added to such a b.com list.

--ES--

Why do I get the impression that the author of this little article falls under his own "GSF1?" Ironically, this list is exactly the kind of asshattery that people find offputting, but tolerate.

Moreover, it's exactly the kind of asshattery that creates the cliqueishness that /everyone/ complains about.

Whatever happened to manners?

Yes, I put up with people I don't like. Mostly because I recognize that some other of my friends actually do like those people. But also because you know, basic manners stand for the principle. I don't care if you're a geek or not, ostracizing someone is just downright rude. A person has to offer sufficient offense to justify such rudeness-- and being socially clumsy is not in itself something to take offense at. The first rule of good manners, you see, is recognizing that most people do not have them, and learning to live with this fact.

The simple matter of fact is that if people started ostracizing everyone from the group because somebody didn't like that person, then there would be no group. And if you think everyone in your particular group likes you-- sorry to break it to you, but you'd be the first to be ostracized.

Geek Social Fallacy #2: Friends Accept Me As I Am

Reading the general tone of this article, I must say that it's GSF2 really exists probably because the author himself is too socially awkward to offer criticism in a constructive fashion. Judging from the tone of his commentary, the entire article just breathes a kind hostile judgementalism-- so I would expect that the author finds whenever he criticizes someone, they take offense, because they pick up on the author's tone of self-satisfied supremacy.

Really, as a geek myself (not only of the bdsm variety) I find people rather open to criticism, as long as you're not framing it as some sort of personal attack. And believe you me, I've seen some pretty socially inept people evolve through such criticism into some fairly adroit social butterflys.

There is an art to offering criticism in a way that people will pick up on and take to heart-- and requirement number one is that you have to genuinely like that person. Even the most socially misfit of people can pick up on whether you genuinely like them or not, whether someone is just pretending to get along with them for some reason or genuinely likes them.

So if you don't genuinely like them, then you're probably coming across as offering them subtle insult in some way. Most likely because you probably are offering them subtle insult in some way. Tone, demeanor, bearing, and the actual relationship between the people involved matter just as much as wording in offering criticism.

That's why it's bad manners to critisize someone you don't really like. Which some people will say is some kind of Catch 22, because they don't realize the way around that is to be a genuinely decent person and be able to like people regardless of thier social acumen. Which brings us back to rule number one of good manners-- learning to accept that most people don't have them yet.

As for YKIOK-- I really, really don't find that to be the case in any BDSM community I've witnessed. Every group has it's boundaries of what it finds acceptable, and what it doesn't. So in some groups, as bunny pointed out, sharps play is acceptable. In others, not so much.

You'll note, for example, that infantalism really isn't widely accepted as acceptable behavior across the community. Furry fetishists are not really also accepted. Think about it long enough and you could expand this list by quite a bit, but these are the two most common examples.

And, once you get familiar with how incredibly cliqueish the scene really is, you'll find further segmentation based on cliques. Some cliques exclude anyone who describes themselves as poly-- some do it the opposite way. There are cliques that subscribe to particular brands of BDSM (Dom/sub, Master/slave, Gor, etc.) and some cliques that do not. Again, the list goes on.

So fallacy number 2 doesn't really have any meat to it's bones.

Now I guess maybe this is the case in smaller areas, less cosmopolitan. If there are only 20 or so people in a 50 mile radius of eachother who share some interest in bdsm, then YKIOK might be the rule that keeps the group together in the first place. Likely that group of 20 or so people aren't neccesarily compatible in most aspects of thier kink, though. So I guess it would then be a decision of whether you want to take yourself and cope on your own, or whether or not you can cope with a group whose interests only marginally overlap your own.

Geek Social Fallacy #3: Friendship Before All

So having good manners is a social fallacy? Right...

I am fairly successful. I've graduated college in a very exclusive feild, I work for a fairly exclusive employer, and by god do I make some money now that I'm done with that College thing.

I have never really found that I've had to put my ambitions before my friends to achieve them. My friends have always come first. That's just the basic requirement of being a good friend. I don't care if you're part of the scene or not, that's just part of the basic human relationship of being a friend.

See, that rule comes around and pays back. If you truly are ambitious, your friends (at least your real friends) aren't going to get in your way unless they really think you're screwing something up. In fact, if you're truly ambitoius, if you truly want something to 'show for your life,' putting friends first is one of the best ways to get there.

In the kink community, I would say that those people who make the scene thier lives really aren't putting thier friends first, unless all thier friends happen to be in the bdsm community (which I think happens more for people who have moved than people who've been in an area for a while). I know I have difficulty scheduling to meet my non-kink social obligations and still get out to the local club or munch or whatever. In fact, I took a four year hiatus from the scene precisely because I didn't have the time, and decided I would rather hang out with the friends I already have than try to make new friends in the kink-community during what little free time I had.

Geek Social Fallacy #4: Friendship Is Transitive

It's called 'networking.' People get paid to teach classes on how to do this stuff. Sometimes the classes are pretty much pieces of crap, but yes-- friendship is transitive, for the most part. Sometimes not, that's the way of things.

And this is a good thing for the BDSM community. It means that if you move from say Philidelphia to Dallas-- well, you have an 'in' with the kink community. How is this a bad thing? Seeing as most of us will all make such a major move sometime in our lifetime, I see that as a positive. If you know somebody who knows somebody in Dallas, and you're moving to Dallas, then it might be fruitful to get in contact with you're friend's friend in Dallas.

If you haven't had to make a major move and make friends with a whole new social circle, I guess it might seem like you are being put upon when such people call you up and introduce themselves. Trust me, being in a new area where you don't know anyone sucks. Really sucks. So have some courtesy and don't slam the door in thier face.

Geek Social Fallacy #5: Friends Do Everything Together

Another one which I think is just a bigger sign of the author's personal asshattery.

If the only time you see your friends is at major social gatherings, it's not because they think everyone has to do everything together-- it's because they're not inviting you when they do things in groups of three or four.

Yes, a lot of groups descend on resteraunts in groups of 20 or even 40 without reservations. That's just part of the group dynamic-- I know I've been to campout events where everyone decides that eating out at Fridays is better than trying to cook in the rain, so guess what happens? Or I know that when I go out dancing, the group I go with tends to descend on whatever place we can find that's still open afterwards for coffee and food.

As for splintering-- that's the natural course of just about any social group. I've been part of splinter, then put themselves back together more times than I can count on one (possibly even two) hands. There's no set of social 'rules' or whatever that is going to solve that. It's human nature. We watch drama for entertainment-- is it any wonder then that we create it elsewhere in our lives?

BlackFlame

Damn fine post, worth using as a disclaimer statement.

Now my spin on it. (as long as I don't get booted off half way thru writing the Effing post again)

#1: Ostracizers Are Evil I just don't fucking care. I don't care if you thnk I am evil, or if you think you are being ostracized, or if you feel like you are or have the urge to do so to me. Oh fucking well. There are people that just don't click, and the OP is right, if you have poor hygiene and can't wipe your ass, or construct an intelligble sentence, then Fuck off. Yes I will verbally commit myself to such in person. I don't have a problem telling you I don't like you. I'm sure there are those here that would concur wholeheartedly.

#2: Friends Accept Me As I Am the OP and I differ.

My friends DO accept me as I am, and we have many commanilities in our kinks, and I don not think they are whacked.
My friends I will go out of my way for, and I would expect, but not require the same. I don't have more than ten people in my world I call friends, sometimes that is a bit much, or a not enough, go with the flow.
This is where I think the OP screws it up and confuses friends with everyone that you have a cup of coffee with from online.
Just because we have had coffee doesn't mean we are dating, or I'll co-sign your loan. We might not even be fucking if you don't have manners.
If you haven't met my kids or been in my home,or I in yours. Then that should give you a clue where you stand. As for acquaintance? Don't give a fuck if they accept me or not, accepting me as who and what I am, is a foot in the door towards friendship though.

I don't think kink acceptance is closely related to this, but I DO think forty pages of "b.com friends" and all that shit, you hot list me I'll hotlist you crap, is crap, and falls into it's own special category in hell.

Bottom line, if you aren't a friend, we are probably just friendly or fucking. Doesn't mean we are friends. This moves right into...

#3: Friendship Before AllA lot of what I have already said is applicabale. I *DO* think friends make an effort, and if you can't you arent' on the way. I won't get up in the middle of the night to tow your car if you aren't close to being a friend or are one. If you can't make some sort of effort, fuck off, don't call me friend or expect em to call you one. Rule #1 Family first, that is before all. Therein lies the incongruity of this.

#4: Friendship Is Transitive bullshit. Veneral Disease is transitive.
If I can't stand you, you will know. Some of my best friends friends are the ones I love to hate on. Oh well. Dont' aks me a favour cuz you are friends with so and so. Suck my cock and we'll talk about it.
Again the confusion of acquaintance and friend.

#5: Friends Do Everything Together what a load of trash.
This place IS incestuous, once that was pointed out I totally agree, and I got over myself when I came to terms with that *laughs*

Is it good to have kink events, meet knew people, and hang out once in awhile? Hell yes, and if you are the type it is the only focus in your life, I'll probably not like you much thereafter. That or I could end up with a bunch new acquaintances I'd like to beat and fuck, that are fun to hang around with.

The complete bottom line, don't get so wrapped around the axel. That's my $20 towards two cents.

Most of the time I'd as soon be out partying and drinking as deal with this kinda bullshit. Good job calling it what it is ScorpioDomme. Like I said, it should be a disclaimer before you join the site. *laughs*
For god's sake, where is my fucking bloody mary.
--
The best orgasm is the last one. ~ Me

Quote:FuckPuppet_:
Nothing says romance to me like mutual financial dealings. If someone doesn't think they have what it takes to get that far, then yes, we are just dating and fucking.

Edited by - Deadeye on 2007-01-27 12:02:17

At first when I started reading this BS I immediately thought "We must have at the VERY least one Omega in the circle of us Alpha WOLVES." But as I read on, my eyes began to glaze over as well.

And then after flying through the rest of the posts, I come across the last two I read. From Heff (whom if he wasn't so much younger and obviously suffering more than I from OCD, would stalk him like I do so many of you...) and then Deadeye...what can you say. I'm falling in lust with them all. Thank you.

BTW? I DIG Geeks and Dorks and any other men and women with independently thinking minds! Original thought processes make me hawt. Don't they you?

In the meantime, the ostracised one still has his friends so the project has already failed and was doomed from the start.

Heff:
**Again, no, not really. this is true when were all little, maybe. when someone is in their mid twenties and above and still cant function like an adult in a social environment, Im not going to make space for them; and Im sure as HELL not going to create an enabling environment where that persons dysfunction is encouraged and "accepted". Fuck you. Change. Grow the hell up.**

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It is too bad that your words (BlackFlame) will probably be read by the proper person but not heard. How fortunate he is to have this "enabling environment" so he himself can behave in such a dysfunctional and cruel manner. Perhaps he would "grow the hell up" if he heard his own words. Until then i say "fuck him", he really matters so little.

--
Tell me and I will forget,
Show me and I will remember,
Involve me and I will understand
Aristotle
****Desires to Take are Nothing Without Desires to Give**