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 All Forums BDSM Talk and Support BDSM Community and Activism Proposed D/S M/S Pride Flag |  Login to Reply New Topic |  Printer Friendly |
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| Jeweller | Posted: 2005-08-05 22:41 | |
Forum Regular Canada 629 Posts | ""The Master/slave Community has its roots in the Leather Community, and it can be said that many in the M/s community are content identifying with only the Leather Flag. There is no intent to denounce our roots, and the Leather Flag will continue to fly proudly in the hearts of those in the Master/slave community." The reason I find this interesting is that when the issue of the source of Leather traditions, terms and practices comes up - few here on bondage.com are comfortable paying homage to Gay Leather. ..... instead to pontificate on their own unsubstantiated origin myths. Many folks on bondage.com seem convinced that D/s and M/s were both invented by a bunch of straight folks somewhere back in the mists of Avalon. They have adopted the Leather flag as their own without having the slightest clue what its enigimatic symbolism might stand for. I am confident that however ugly this flag may seem today. If it persists long enough in Gay Leather, it will eventually be claimed by Het M/s and ultimately attributed to Merlin an Italian Grand Master, a famous long dead Samurai or someother mythical (straight) inventor. I find this interesting too. But for other reasons. WHile there are indeed a lot of people who identify with gay leather there are very many who don't. And while I agree that there are definitely roots to gay leather in this "lifestyle" it would be pretty ridiculous to give all the credit to gay leather. I mean remember the cave man for God's sake. Remember how he would hit the girl over the head and drag her back to his cave? I'm sure he didn't know about gay leather. And as his decendants procreated hetrosexually, the human desire to give or inflict pain, to control and dominate or submit totally continued to thrive right up until today. As for attributing anything to Merlin, well I guess I just went back a little further.... ~LOL~ Maybe we should all just design our own flags, like the countries do. Then we can have sadistic battles and moving surrenders, just like the real world does. Open your mind so your eyes can see, see so your mind can perceive. you can contact me off site at : jeweller@workline.com | |
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| SenorJaime | Posted: 2005-08-05 22:42 | |
Forum Slut United States 1,696 Posts | DarkPaladin: What I find more interesting than the flag though is this statement that accompanies it: ""The Master/slave Community has its roots in the Leather Community, and it can be said that many in the M/s community are content identifying with only the Leather Flag. There is no intent to denounce our roots, and the Leather Flag will continue to fly proudly in the hearts of those in the Master/slave community." The reason I find this interesting is that when the issue of the source of Leather traditions, terms and practices comes up - few here on bondage.com are comfortable paying homage to Gay Leather. I wouldn't go so far as to say "few here on bondage.com" are comfortable giving credit where credit is due. When factoring out the fluffernutter and the recreational grief posters, I'd say the hardcore forumites are more knowledgeable and respectful of leather history than you believe. We've come a long way from the days of assorted online hetero people claiming they were trained as Old Guard whatevers. I can also recall how "right on" many here were in their reaction to Guy Baldwin's Sacred Cows speech, for example. It is also probably true that most here are more interested in looking for their particular desire relationship, or in strengthening it, than in studying leather history. I'm an analytical sort of fellow and the anthropology of our assorted BDSM/Leather/Fetish communities fascinates me in their past, present, and speculative future forms. Returning to speculation on a D/S flag, I doubt it'll get much of a foothold in the collective unconscious, or even that of the M/S and D/S communities. I still think the collar speaks to a more universal archetype than a flag does. For those that are inclined, there are also the Roissy-style "slave rings" and myriad bits of apparel with all sorts of permutations of titular Master, Slave, and Dominant stuff. While I feel folks should be proud of the things they aspire to, a D/S flag strikes me more as a clandestine gang sign rather than a universal expression.
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| arayofsunshine | Posted: 2005-08-05 22:44 | |
black swan United States 10,664 Posts | PrurientInterests: I don't need or want a flag to represent my sexuality. ditto. | |
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| _raku_ | Posted: 2005-08-05 22:47 | |
Forum Maniac United States 2,105 Posts | <<< is not the sharpest knife in the bag. yes, much better, i feel something when i see this flag. what are your plans Misha? and what is the symbolism of each stripe? -- People ask the same questions, “Are you a sub or a slave?” and “What are your limits?” What I have learned is that it is not so much about the type and color of the clay that reflects the work of art it will become, it is the raw talent, life experience and creative vision of the sculptor and how wet and malleable I feel when in his strong hands….. | |
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| Misha | Posted: 2005-08-05 22:51 | |
Mr. Punny Guy United States 5,148 Posts | jeunesse, I kinda have plans for it, only just inasmuch as I'd love to see it become well known. It would mean the world to me for it to become popular with SM/Leather communities. I definitely don't want it to just be a "hey, here's my version" pic for a short period of time. All I want out of it really is proper lasting attribution for its creation. -- - M. BDSM Flag avatar is Copyright Misha, 2005. No reproduction without permission or attribution. This is my own redesign of the BDSM pride/leather flag. I prefer the red as a line rather than as a heart in the corner. | |
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| Departed | Posted: 2005-08-05 22:56 | |
| Forum Maniac - unknown - 5,332 Posts | I would prefer an excited blowfish perched atop a heap of crumpled dollar bills to that monstrosity. I really have to wonder how anyone could get ANY sort of "symbolic meaning" out of a bunch of red stripes. | |
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| Thor_1 | Posted: 2005-08-05 22:58 | |
Forum Maniac Canada 7,010 Posts | that flag is just butt ugly, it makes you wonder what they didn't like! | |
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| erottasub | Posted: 2005-08-05 23:20 | |
| Forum Apprentice United States 147 Posts | Sometimes, i have noticed, that having a flag (or symbol), whatever the intent, just makes you a more easily identified target. i am proud of who i am, yet, i have no need to fly such a flag on my home or place a bumper sticker on my car. It doesn't represent me as a person, even if the symbolism is important to someone else, it has no meaning for me. (And it really isn't all that attractive, either.) -erotta Happily Owned & Certified: http://www.slaveregister.com/certificate/906811 | |
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| VolcanoCBE | Posted: 2005-08-06 00:03 | |
Forum Maniac United States 5,540 Posts | submittous: that flag is ugly and sucks, what's wrong with the leather pride flag? One complaint I've heard is that it bears too close of a resemblance to the US flag. -- | |
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| finestork | Posted: 2005-08-06 00:57 | |
| Forum Newbie United States 62 Posts | What the living fuck is that? Oh god, please don't tell me that our kink is the first with a friggin' MOSFETransistor as device on a flag! What sort of substrait was used? (hmmm...substrait...straight sub...i guess the concept actually FITS) Or maybe it's a club sandwich being barred entry to whatever is on the left. That's it, it's international sign language for And from what the verbiage says, is the upright whatever (a vertical line is the univeral symbol of dominance? Yikes, i always thought it was the universal symbol for 'one') multi-banging the three on the right? Oh boy, yet another secret-symbol dating bumper sticker to memorize PS That's humor folks, lame humor, sure, but HUMOR.
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| Dom-Mark666 | Posted: 2005-08-06 01:18 | |
Forum Apprentice United States 428 Posts | EVERYBODY HATES THAT DESIGN!!!! UGLY BEYOND WORDS, and as a Scorpio, I really like black & red together. I sincerely doubt the Old Leather guys would slaute that flag. Maybe piss on it, though. I'm not too crazy about the kinda-looks-like-the-Ryukyu Dynasty-symbol-for-Okinawa design that's supposed to be the BDSM symbol, either. Until we secede from the Union we don't get a flag! Ok, for those that must insist on something to fly, wave, or salute to I suggest a coat of arms flag with condoms, vibrators, a collar, whip, chains and really cute M & F naked bodies on it... and a cup of coffee. I like coffee. Mark | |
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| Evil_454 | Posted: 2005-08-06 01:40 | |
Forum Slut United States 1,060 Posts | "We claim this land in the name of ..." "Excuse me. We were here first." "Oh. Well. Do you have a flag?" Eddie Izzard I have to agree that it's hideous. I used to have the Leather Pride flag on my (standard) vest, but I took it off because of being propositioned to many times by guys. They take it as a sign and while I support and honor where the flag originated, I don't play with other men (it does nothing for me) and I don't need to give off that impression. I think another flag would be a good idea, and while I agree that it should be white/black/blue with some red, it should be more original. There was an bird/eagle emblem that came out a few years ago that I thought was pretty trick, and I keep hoping for patches and flags adopting that concept. Also, the triskelion (spelling?) emblem is the most recognised around here, as APEX uses it.  | |
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| Schmunzelmonster | Posted: 2005-08-06 02:13 | |
Forum Slut United Kingdom 1,735 Posts | To my mind the symbolism is flawed - the submissive seem to be kneeling on a shelf about 18" off the floor. Oh... wait... maybe the symbolism is perfect; the master has put his slave on a pedastal. Misha: jeunesse, I kinda have plans for it, only just inasmuch as I'd love to see it become well known. It would mean the world to me for it to become popular with SM/Leather communities. I definitely don't want it to just be a "hey, here's my version" pic for a short period of time. All I want out of it really is proper lasting attribution for its creation. -- - M. BDSM Flag avatar is Copyright Misha, 2005. No reproduction without permission or attribution. This is my own redesign of the BDSM pride/leather flag. I prefer the red as a line rather than as a heart in the corner. I wish you well, Misha, but I do wonder if your desire for acknowledgement and your desire to "get ti out there" are not in conflict. After the recent London bombings, the web was awash with Union Jacks being "flown" in solidarity. That wouldn't have happened if everyone had had to get permission from whoever designed it before they added it to their avatar. (As an aside, this whole "wave a flag in solidarity" thing was lost on most Britons - it certainly confused me for a while. We just don't use our flag that way.) | |
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| Elorin | Posted: 2005-08-06 02:24 | |
Forum Slut United States 1,674 Posts | yes, I think it's unattractive. yes, I think it would be helpful for communities where gay leather and the more hetero players commingle, to give the heteros their own lil kink symbol. unfortunately, this symbol is for D/s and M/s, not for hets versus straights. Perhaps gays could choose not to hit on anyone not wearing rainbow colors or something? Hmmm...or we could learn to politely decline, and be flattered that our same gender finds us so attractive. Yes, that would work. Do we need another flag? Eh...not really. Would I identify with it? Not if it's this one. If I saw something whose explanation fit as a representation of what it is that I do, and whose symbolism was effective, I would use it... Oh wait, I have one of those. the BDSM symbol designed by Quagmyr. I agree. A collar, the "o" or Roissy style rings, a leather pride flag, or a BDSM symbol seem to be enough to "rally around". Make a flag for your club, sure. But I'm not looking for a new symbol for the whole community. Having said all that, though, I do like Misha's flag redesign. The heart on the leather pride flag doesn't exactly represent everyone. But I'd have to have my mom repaint the paddle she did for me with the leather pride flag on the back of the American flag.... | |
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| katie | Posted: 2005-08-06 02:35 | |
Just blame me  United States 1,448 Posts | I prefer Misha's flag... Even though I didn't know that it was his own design the colours were easily identifiable to me to say hey, BDSM flag. The other one, even with the explination, I still look at it and I still don't get it. It makes me think too hard. -- My apartment is infested with koala bears. It's the cutest infestation ever. Way better than cockroaches. When I turn on the light, a bunch of koala bears scatter, but I don't want them too. I'm like, "Hey... Hold on fellows... Let me hold one of you, and feed you a leaf." Koala bears are so cute, why do they have to be so far away from me. We need to ship a few over, so I can hold one, and pat it on its head.--Mitch Hedberg | |
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